About this episodeMo and Sher Williams discuss their collaborative creative process, emphasizing that children's books function …AI summary
Mo and Sher Williams discuss their collaborative creative process, emphasizing that children's books function like songs meant to be repeated, requiring the creator to write the 'discovery' rather than just the idea. They detail specific production techniques, such as drawing out of order and using physical book dimensions to convey narrative, while advocating for supporting local food banks and DonorsChoose to address systemic needs.
Key takeaways 7
The 'Random Ant' Philosophy: Artists are the 'random ants' who deviate from the pheromone trail; their job is not success but finding new things through deviation and risk-taking.
Writing the Discovery: The creative excitement comes from the discovery of the idea, not the idea itself. The writer's job is to write the journey of discovery so the audience can experience it alongside the creator.
Books as Songs: Picture books are songs meant to be read repeatedly. The value lies in the journey and memory, not just the punchline. If a parent does more than 50% of the work, it becomes a manual.
Production Technique - Draw Out of Order: Mo Williams draws the middle of the book first (after act two) because by that point, he has improved his drawing skills, ensuring the final cover is his best work. He avoids noticing technical flaws (like camera angles) until the end to maintain immersion.
Physicality as Narrative: Book dimensions are chosen based on the subject matter (tall for individuals, wide for communities/scenes). This allows children to make discoveries about scale and context without being told.
Separation of Creative and Reactive Time: Mo blocks out specific days (alternate days) where he does not answer phones or emails, dedicating that time solely to 'boredom, walking, and questioning' to foster creativity.
Collaborative Dynamic: Sher acts as a critical reader and business partner but does not write or draw. Their dynamic involves deep philosophical conversations about agency and seeing children as a disenfranchised community.
Notable quotes 5AI-generated: wording and quote attribution may be wrong. Use the play link to verify.
“Those are the artists in our culture. We are the random ants.”
▶ 0:41Mo Williams uses an ant colony analogy to explain that artists are the outliers who don't follow the established trail, allowing them to find new resources and ideas.
“Your job is not to write the idea. Your job is to write the discovery.”
▶ 3:49Explaining that the excitement of an idea fades once it's written down; the craft lies in recreating the initial moment of discovery for the reader.
“Picture books are songs. You're going to hear them again and again and again. So the punchline isn't the piece. The piece is the journey that you're there and the memory.”
▶ 2:26Defining the purpose of children's literature as a repetitive, shared experience rather than a one-time narrative delivery.
“I'm not reactive until noon. I wake up in the morning and I do whatever it is... a book is a single question that you do not know the answer to.”
▶ 21:06Describing his daily routine to protect creative space from business demands, framing writing as an act of inquiry rather than just production.
“Art is unimportant. It is essential... It's not essential because it's successful. It's essential because we can't exist without it.”
▶ 31:39Mo Williams distinguishes between art as a career/success metric and art as a fundamental human necessity for connection and understanding.
Chapters & Sections (37)▼
0:00Artistic Discovery and Picture Book Craftchapter3
2:43Writing the Discovery Process
4:12Audience Discovery and Punchline Timing
5:21Personal Connection to We Are in a Book
7:51Creative Process and Daily Routinechapter1
10:47Separating Creative and Reactive Time
12:17Philosophy of Simplicity and Creative Processchapter2
14:42Soviet Animation and Marriage Dynamics
16:14Overcoming Creative Hesitation and Sketch Comedy Roots
18:00Creativity, Seeability, and Character Developmentchapter2
19:47Creative Process and Idea Gardening
22:24Character Auditions and Creative Workspace
24:00Illustration Process and Pigeon Book Originchapter3
25:47Creating Don't Let the Pigeon Drive the Bus
27:18Sketchbook to Picture Book Transition
28:33Creative Partnership and Book Pitching
30:24Art as Random Ants and Career Pathschapter1
33:18Meeting and Career Evolution
36:19Collaborative Philosophy and Parenting Dynamicschapter1
38:24Philosophy of Children and Agency
40:39Book Design as Sculpture and Creative Processchapter1
42:35Creative Process and Standup Comedy
45:18Individual Creative Processes and Book Successchapter1
47:50Analyzing Book Success and Creative Independence
49:38Authenticity in Children's Literaturechapter1
51:05Authenticity and Surprise in Children's Books
53:41Writing Children's Books: Audience and Intentchapter2
55:10Audience Impact on Character Behavior
56:44Intentional Inclusivity in Children's Books
58:16Inclusivity, Mentorship, and Discovery in Children's Literaturechapter1
1:00:32Overcoming Universality in Children's Books
1:02:48Food Security and Philanthropy in Picture Bookschapter1
1:04:35Food Banks and Philanthropy Critique
1:06:51Generosity, Community, and Creative Doodlingchapter3
1:08:49Appreciating Community and Creative Freedom
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